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Talk:Warp
__TOC__ Warp Detonation Does anyone know the exact amount of added damage for detonating a Pull or Singularity effect on the target? 04:25, February 11, 2010 (UTC) :It could be highly variable since it is more physically simulated than other events; probably wouldn't matter even if we knew. Probably will take a bit of work and understanding to get real use out of any data, time will tell.--0333 20:06, February 11, 2010 (UTC) ::I would guess it's similar to Throw - since it gives force in Newtons, how much damage does it actually do? If we smack someone against a wall with Throw, or onto the ground, it hurts them compared to just knocking them on their butt. -DarkJeff 15:22, February 12, 2010 (UTC) : I asked because it would be nice to be able to compare Warp directly to Reave since they have a highly similar intended function (destroy armor/barrier). Assuming +20% duration and +50% damage biotic upgrades, Heavy Reave would deal 396 over 6.6 seconds to hp, and 792 over 6.6 seconds to armor/barrier. According to the link in the "ME2 Modifiers" discussion heading, Warp also has x2 damage against armor/barrier, so Heavy Warp would deal 600 direct damage. If detonating a Pull/Singularity (how about the afterglow from Shockwave, too?) yields at least 192 more damage, then there's arguably no reason to ever take Reave as a bonus power (unless your playstyle allows the hp regen to really work for you) since Warp has innate AOE, some knockback, deals its damage immediately, and is curvable vs Reave's LOS only. I'll try to test this conclusively and update. 16:21, February 12, 2010 (UTC) ::It's worth noting that someone has pointed out Reave actually only does damage over time against health - against everything else, it does all its damage at once. Reave (at least Area) also has CC - it stuns organics. On your companions, it's actually better than Warp due to its instantaneous nature, which means it launches from your line of sight, not your companions. --DarkJeff 05:13, February 17, 2010 (UTC) There is new information from Eric Fagnan here. To quote him: :The detonated target takes double damage from Warp (whatever damage it does at that rank), and gets thrown backwards (away from the impact point) with a force specified by Detonation Force for that rank. Any damage bonuses for biotics or powers in general also get doubled. :All targets within the Detonation Radius receive full damage from Warp as if they had also been hit by the power. Furthermore, if they are affected by a biotic effect, they get double damage just like the main target. They also get thrown away from the detonation impact point with Detonation Force. These additional targets do not get detonated though (you can't chain detonations). So there we have it. We just need to tidy that up, maybe source it, and toss it onto the page proper. Apparently, it IS worth it to detonate. --DarkJeff 06:04, February 24, 2010 (UTC) Recharge Times Heavy Warp Does heavy warp really increase recharge time for non-Shepards? I'm going to have to check that eventually... what an odd upgrade.--0333 20:37, February 11, 2010 (UTC) : It actually does. I upgraded Miranda's Warp yesterday and I can confirm that Heavy Warp has a recharge time of 12 secs and Unstable has 9 secs. Flaicher 14:56, February 12, 2010 (UTC) : When my calculation is right than Unstable Warp does even more DPS then Heavy Warp. The only disadvantage i can see is that they have to get out of cover more often but they do that anyway to shoot. ::i can confirm, i ran the numbers on a calculator heavy warp gives 16.67 dps and unstable warp does 17.78 dps Andrew-108 00:02, December 7, 2010 (UTC) :::Is there any tangible way to confirm this? Anyone can say they ran the numbers themselves. Even I, with my laughably poor math skills, can easily say "I can disprove. I ran the numbers, and heavy warp does 21.45 dps, while unstable warp only does 19.32". See what I mean? We need something concrete. SpartHawg948 00:08, December 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::I suppose it would be a matter of transparency. If multiple people could see the formula and verify its accuracy themselves, would that not be sufficient? I'm assuming that Andrew-108 used the simple formula of / to arrive at the two numbers. Namely, Heavy Warp can do 200 damage to a single target every 12 seconds (16.67 dps), and Unstable warp can do 160 damage every 9 seconds (17.78 dps). There are a lot of assumptions and/or limitations in that formula though: ::::*Target has no layers of protection (Health bar only, Warp does more or less damage to any other defensive layers) ::::*Target is not under the effects of any other biotics (Warp does 2x damage to enemies that are "glowing blue" from biotics) ::::*Cannot account for damage caused by detonation of other biotics ::::It is, at the very least, a crude estimation of the dps potential of the two. I dispute that it's accurate in the general-use case for Warp though. It is used to maximum effect when detonating biotics in large groups of enemies, causing splash damage to enemies that are caught in the explosion as well as the enemy who is the source of the explosion. Also unaccounted is the ability to "ring out" enemies, killing them instantly when they are thrown "out of bounds" by the explosion. ::::But, if one uses warp in the most ineffective way possible (warping a single unprotected target that isn't affected by other biotics), then yeah, the formula is trivially accurate. ::::As far as 'concrete' evidence? Nowhere in the game does it state that heavy warp or unstable warp gets X dps, if that's what you mean. Any DPS numbers would have to be extrapolated from known information. -- Dammej (talk) 00:49, December 7, 2010 (UTC) :::::And I have a problem with that as it is an interpertation of game data and I don't think Warp lasts for all 12 or 9 seconds of the recharge. From what I've expierenced, usually just impacts and it's done, no lasting effects like Reave or Incinerate. I really would have a problem if that goes in as we don't know all of the circumstances behind it. And it really boils down to speculation. Lancer1289 00:57, December 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Well, it doesn't last for all 12/9 seconds. It just does 200/160 damage instantaneously, and can do that amount of damage every 12/9 seconds. It leads to the same DPS calculation regardless. But as I've stated above, that formula is pretty trivial, and ignores a lot of circumstances where warp is used to greatest effect. -- Dammej (talk) 01:01, December 7, 2010 (UTC) ME2 Modifier "More effective" apparently means "double damage", according to Eric Fagnan. -DarkJeff 21:29, February 11, 2010 (UTC) "class/character availability" section redundant? How come the format is to introduce a power by saying "X is a power available to L, M and N," and then include an "availability" section at the end -- doesn't it seem a bit redundant? (this also goes for the articles of other powers, not just Warp) Rtl42 15:54, November 28, 2010 (UTC) :I really don't see a problem with it as some don't list everything in the opening. Personally I favor consistency and the talents had this set a long time ago so I feel that it hsould stay as it is. Lancer1289 19:08, November 28, 2010 (UTC) ::That's fair enough, I can understand the consistency point, if it's already standard around here. Thx for the response! Rtl42 13:13, November 29, 2010 (UTC) Detonating Pull to Strip Defences I'm just wondering if this is possible, or if Pull ends more quickly against protected enemies. I mean, I know I can't properly pull protected enemies, but if the effect field sticks around long enough, it could still be used to detonate warp, theoretically.Delspencerdeltorro 10:53, October 27, 2011 (UTC) Does anyone know if the damage of the warp itself effects the damage of a detonation? I have rank 4 detonate.. wondering if I should bother increasing damage of warp further since I try to use it only to detonate things. 07:04, March 13, 2012 (UTC)Damage Warp in ME3 Am I the only one who has some... um... problems with warp? Cause it's not like in ME2, it doesn't follow the target and arches very little, it flies almost in straight line, and misses the target very often (a moving target is almost untouchable). --Divine Stas 11:56, April 7, 2012 (UTC) You're not the only one. To get it to work, I have to basically play my Adept like a Vanguard - rushing out of cover and launching Warp at point-blank range. Basically, a quick-cast heavy melee. Warp's targeting mechanism worked perfectly in ME2! Why did they need to change it? --Knight of Hope 11:06, April 12, 2012 (UTC) : Yeah, that's what i'm talking about, in ME2 it was perfect, in ME3 you have to aim, as if you gonna shoot a gun. That's a pity. In ME3 i find it more or less efficient by using in tandem with singularity (at least it captures enemies).--Divine Stas 11:24, April 12, 2012 (UTC) :: It's even worse than aiming a gun in my opinion. The Warp projectile does not fly as fast as a bullet does, so you have to lead the target pretty significantly to hit him. Makes it pretty useless, in my opinion. Plus I have yet to actually hit a shielded enemy with Warp to see if it actually damages shields like it did in ME2. It's sad - I was looking forward to turning enemies into Warp bombs and detonating them when they run behind cover with their buddies. --Knight of Hope 11:42, April 12, 2012 (UTC) ::: And it's actually not very effective against shields and barriers. It's not following the target, it makes not very much damage. I had to use shockwave instead... But as i already said, if used after singularity, than it makes a lot of damage, an it turns out to be the only viable way of using it in ME3.--Divine Stas 12:54, April 12, 2012 (UTC) Level 4B Evolution Rank 4B says that you get a 50% damage bonus for biotic detonations, I'd like to know if this stacks with other power evolutions that increase biotic explosions, such Throw's 5A evolution for 50% or Shockwave's 5A evolution for 65%. --GodzillaMaster 14:19, June 7, 2012 (UTC) :As far as I know, yes. However I haven't checked the games internal mechanics nor have I tested out having 5A and not 4B (i always max out warp first) i can't say for sure - it wouldn't make sense for it not to and i think that they are much more powerful when you have both rather than just the 4b one. SanjayBeast (talk) 14:31, June 7, 2012 (UTC) I think they don't stack since I think detonate only works if this is the power you use to detonate something (otherwise it wouldn't make much sense on trow and shockwave) They stack. I'm running through the third Mass Effect with Flare as a bonus power. It gives a total of 200% (50% each from Shockwave, Warp, Throw, and Flare) extra damage from a biotic detonation, which on Insanity easily charts up to around 2500-3000 damage from 2 rank 6 evolution powers. Trust me, it's noticeable. Even the 50% extra from Flare dramatically helps. Biotic Detonations aren't affected by damage bonuses, they're their own special classification of damage which can only be increased from specific powers and power ranks like the bonus damage. 18:26, March 8, 2014 (UTC) ME3 Warp "Pierce" Evolution There is section in the article about Warp that is incorrect: "The rank six Pierce evolution is actually a non-stacking debuff; thus the damage bonus will not affect the initial Warp hit, but it will affect a follow-up use of Warp (if done within the duration of the first Warp). However, the damage-over-time effect of Warp is unaffected by Pierce." This is apparently the result of some confusion in the original thread. Expose is the nonstacking debuff that only applies to the DOT of Warp on the first cast. While Pierce has a debuff of sorts (the extra armor weakening), the rest is purely a modification to the damage multipliers, not a debuff. You can tell that it is actually the Expose evolution because it is a 1.15 multiplier, although the post will occasionally attribute it to Pierce. The Pierce contribution is the extra 1.5 multiple to the armor modifier. The thread that is cited for this bit of info is: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/14033200/1#14033200 Capn233 (talk) 02:14, November 6, 2013 (UTC) Warp Biotic Detonation on Shielded Enemies (Mass Effect 3) Is this worth mentioning within the main article? A tactic that I have been using as an adept on insanity mode against all sorts of shielded enemies is the warp-throw combo. Apparently the damage over time effect seems to be usable as a primer for another detonation power. It only seems to work with Warp, and is similar to Reave and Dark Channel in that way. Any damage over time effect seems to circumvent shielding's bad habit of making detonation combos a bit more complex. The use of Warp has kept me from ever having to fire a gun. That bears repeating given the amount of statements of shield heavy enemy based missions that seem to think, even on insanity, that shields are somehow impenetrable without a skill necessary to take them down. Usually Warp-Throw is enough to take down all the surrounding units and a significant amount of an enemies health, but combining it with another Area of Effect attack such as Flare makes even Centurion's and Marauders into crispy biotic-fried ash piles. The combination of warp+detonator seems to work even against an Atlas. The reason I state this is because other articles seem to put emphasis on other powers like Reave or Dark Channel because they ignore shields when Warp also does the same thing, and yet Warp is never mentioned to also do this anywhere that I've looked. I'm the type that likes to do a bit of research before committing to a 4-7 day playthrough of the series, so I shied away from using Warp until I accidentally detonated it on a shielded enemy. It just seems neglectful to not give full credit to Warp for its usefulness in dispatching... well, pretty much anything. Warp is my bread and butter. 18:15, March 8, 2014 (UTC) :There is already a note to this effect in the "Strategies" section (that Warp can prime or detonate a biotic explosion on any time against any opponent). Keep in mind that the "ignoring shields" aspect applies to other biotic powers as well, Stasis being an obvious example, as well as Reave and Dark Channel as you mention. Obviously Warp/Throw is a bread-and-butter combo for Adepts and Sentinels, but mentioning that at the beginning of every mission walkthrough doesn't make much sense to me (many of the prep sections do mention Power Combos though). OTOH the Adept Guide and Sentinel Guide are appropriate places for this class-specific/game-wide information - they seem to provide a fair amount of detail as well as the Sentinel triple combo Overload/Warp/Throw, but feel free to have a look if you think something should be made more explicit. Or perhaps the Power Combos article could be clarified that biotic explosions can be primed even if shields are present, though I took that as implicit in that it doesn't say they aren't. Cattlesquat (talk) 21:06, March 8, 2014 (UTC)